Who Needs College Anyway? Remarks by Charles Murray
President Obama set an ambitious new goal in his speech to Congress on February 24, 2009, proclaiming that by 2020, America will …have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world. But some experts, like author Charles Murray, dont think we need more Americans going to college. In his new book, Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing Americas Schools Back to Reality (Random House, 2008), Murray argues that Americans place too much value on the bachelors degree.Murray and researcher Anthony Carnevale debated Who Needs a College Education Anyway? at the Hechinger Institutes Seminar for Higher Education Reporters in December 2008. Scott Jaschik of Inside Higher Ed moderated the debate. Murray, the W. H. Brady Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, contends that because ability varies and 50 percent of people are below average, our current system of higher education makes little sense.Carnevale, Research Professor and Director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce, argues we should encourage as many students as possible to attend and graduate from college, because intelligence isnt fixed at birth and can be influenced by education. After their remarks, Murray and Carnevale took questions from journalists participating in the Seminar.
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10 comments
YoSoydePinas on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
The government has educational programs as described by Charles Murray. It’s called the military training programs. Cut out all the BS and teach what you really need to know to do your specific job. The rest of it can be learned OJT. One of the most successful programs is the US Navy Nuclear Engineering Program.
prayfertrey on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
And by the time you’re out of elementary and grammar school, your desire to learn has been so flattened it’s no wonder that kids who go to college of an attitude of, "look, I just wanna get this done and get the degree and get the job, ok. Don’t pester me with ‘the wonder of learning’". The only thing you learn in school is how to obey orders.
yak6ex on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Wow simple and brilliant.
independence442 on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
(Continued)I don’t really openly discuss my plans with them, because I don’t really fit into their league. I really don’t care if they think I’m less intelligent than them. Technical school is more practical, and at least I’ll have work while they’re drowning in student loans unemployed.I’ve read some of the other comments. It’s good to see other people who are down-to-earth. If only my friends were like you.
independence442 on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
(Continued)It’s all such a fun experience, but when you put on that cap and gown, and are handed that piece of paper, you owe a ton of money, and nobody wants to hire you because you don’t have any practical skills.It just becomes a fancy piece of paper.I’m quite different from my friends. In fact, I might be the only one that has a practical mindset. You know, one that doesn’t plan on wasting time and money on rubbish.
prayfertrey on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@independence442 Even if someone does want to hire you… it doesn’t take 4 years to learn how to be a librarian, or to use an x-ray machine… School is a jobs creation scheme. So many unnecessary jobs would go away if University wasn’t bloated with all kinds of easy A majors. Today, the University is a way to make jobs for "professors" etc. and to make billions for loan lenders, and the govt. (Obama) takes its marching orders from the bankers.
independence442 on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
At least at technical school you’ll learn something useful.I’m so glad that I followed my senses not to go to a university. It’s expensive, and you are forced to take courses unrelated to your major that are useless in reality.Sadly, all of my friends are jumping on the college bandwagon. Quite a few are majoring in something totally worthless, and they’ll get 50K+ into debt. Who’s gonna hire them?
independence442 on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
(Continued)At least at technical school you’ll learn something useful.I’m so glad that I followed my senses not to go to a university. It’s expensive, and you are forced to take courses unrelated to your major that are useless in reality.Sadly, all of my friends are jumping on the college bandwagon. Quite a few are majoring in something totally worthless, and they’ll get 50K+ into debt. Who’s gonna hire them?
independence442 on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
He speaks the truth. The BA is overrated. It’s not really right to call someone a dummy just because they don’t have one. You don’t need a BA to be smart.Look at Bill Gates. He doesn’t have a college degree, but look where he is today!Also, a BA doesn’t have much worth in the real world. An employer doesn’t care what crazy subjects you studied at college, they want you to have taken courses related to the field!There’s nothing wrong with technical school.
cheddarbean on January 5, 2010 at 6:50 pm
All college does is train you to be a disciplined employee. It doesn’t round you out. You don’t even learn crap. I have a degree in business and can’t remember crap!!! All college does is trains you for 4 years to be on time, meet deadlines, and work hard….same thing you’re gonna do in the corporate world and that’s what employers are gonna want! …slaves!